Hyde, James & Wayne, Stephen - Oral History Collection

BIOGRAPHICAL INFORMATION

James F. C. Hyde, Jr.

1949-1976 Member, Legislative Reference Division, Bureau of the Budget and OMB

n.d. Adjunct faculty, George Washington University

Co-author "Advising the President on Enrolled Legislation: Patterns

(With Stephen J. Wayne) of Executive Influence," Richard L. Cole, co-author (Political Science Quarterly, Summer, 1979)

"Presidential Decision-Making on Enrolled Bills" (Presidential Studies Quarterly, Summer,1979)

"White House-OMB Relationships," Steven Shull and Lance LeLoup, editors (Readings in Presidential Policy-Making, 1979)

Stephen J. Wayne

n.d. Graduate student, Columbia University

1968 Faculty, George Washington University

Co-author Papers co-authored with James Hyde (see above)

The Legislative Presidency (Harper & Row, 1978)

The Road to the White House: The Politics of Presidential Elections (St.Martin's Press, 1980)

Studying the Presidency, George C. Edwards, co-editor (University of Tennessee Press, 1983)

Presidential Leadership: Politics and Policy-Making, George C. Edwards, co-author (St. Martin's Press, 1985)

INTRODUCTION

Stephen Wayne and James F. C. Hyde interviewed members of President Ford's White House and OMB staff as part of a 5-year joint research study of legislative clearance, enrolled bill and legislative programming processes over different Administrations (see Appendix A). Several scholarly articles resulted from the study, and the interviews are also widely cited in Professor Wayne's book, The Legislative Presidency.

The questioning routinely addressed three broad areas: 1) the individual's role and specific activities in providing the President with legislative policy advice, 2) his assessment of the President's personality, management style, and staff structure, organizations, and operations, and 3) a "psychological" interview concerning the pressures, perks and personal feelings of satisfaction, frustration, disappointment, and accomplishment gained from working in the White House.

The researcher will not find substantive information about legislative issues in the interviews; the focus is on the mechanics and staff interactions involved in the handling of enrolled bills, clearance of agency proposals and the development of the President's annual legislative program. Interesting anecdotal information is provided on such topics as the leadership abilities of President Ford and his Domestic Council Director James Cannon, a back channel of policy advisors in the Ford White House, the influence of speechwriters, staff competition and frustration, President Ford's work ethic, media leaks, White House Mess privileges, and lobbying techniques.

The interviews provide a general and interesting overview of the Ford White House, its ambiance and the dynamics of its staff organization. Their value lies primarily in the interpretations, experiences, and personalities of individuals, enriched by comparisons with the Nixon White House by staff whose tenure spanned both administrations.

For research convenience, a comprehensive list of interview summaries is attached and also available in each folder (see Appendix B).

The collection includes twenty of the project's forty interviews with White House and OMB staff from the Eisenhower through the Ford administrations. Six of the project's interviews with Eisenhower administration officials are housed in the Dwight D. Eisenhower Library. All of the interviews are open for research with the exception of Roger Porter's, whose permission to release remains pending. Stephen Wayne conducted the interviews, joined on two occasions by James Hyde. Not all interview dates may be accurate; for instance, one Raoul-Duval interview dated spring, 1976 clearly took place after the November election.

The Ford Library contracted the transcription of the interview audiotapes. The transcripts vary in length from 17 to 26 pages and were edited by Library staff to improve readability. Some interviews spanned several sessions and required several audiotapes. The audiotapes are individually numbered and available for listening.

Related Materials (March 1992)

Related materials are found throughout the Library's collections, especially in the files and papers of the interviewees, Domestic Council Director James Cannon and other Domestic Council staff, and in the White House Records Office Enrolled Bill Case File. Other interviews with Ford White House staff appear in the William Syers Interview Transcripts, and the James Reichley Interview Transcripts.

APPENDIX B

SUMMARY DESCRIPTIONS OF THE HYDE-WAYNE INTERVIEWS

Cavanaugh, James H. Notes from an interview with the Deputy Assistant to the President for Domestic Affairs concerning President Ford's decisional style and Domestic Council. (AV90-19-22A)

Chanock, Foster. An interview with the Staff Assistant to the Chief of Staff concerning the management and function of the White House Operations Office, President Ford's personality and management style, White House staff tensions and conflict, and the mystique and pressures of working in the White House. (AV90-19-9A)

Cheney, Richard. An interview on June 27, 1975 with the Deputy Assistant to the President concerning the management styles of Presidents Ford and Nixon and how President Ford made decisions. (AV90-19-1)

Cheney, Richard. An interview on February 8, 1977 with the Chief of Staff concerning his role as deputy and assistant to the President, President Ford's personality and management style, and operations of the White House staff. (AV90-19-2)

Connor, James E. An interview with the White House Staff Secretary concerning his White House duties, President Ford's character and management style, the White House staff, and the perks and pressures of working in the White House. (AV90-19-3)

Friedersdorf, Max. An interview with the Assistant to the President for Legislative Affairs concerning his role in legislative policy development and congressional liaison, the circulation of enrolled bills, the operations and practices of the Congressional Relations Office, and its previous director, William Timmons. (AV90-19-7)

Hartmann, Robert. An interview with the Counsellor to the President concerning his role as President Ford's senior advisor and overseer of the White House editorial staff, speechwriting and editing practices, President Ford's work style, staff tensions, and the mystique, pressures, and perks of working in the White House. (AV90-19-9)

Hope, Judith. An interview with the Domestic Council Associate Director for Transportation concerning her activities regarding the Urban Mass Transit and Railroad Acts, agency and congressional contacts, policy advocacy among associate directors, channels of communication, and the pressures and perks of working in the White House. (AV90-19-21A)

Humphreys, George. An interview with the Domestic Council Associate Director for the Environment concerning his role in recommending policy, presidential decision-making, Domestic Council and OMB staff interactions, the lame duck period, comparison of Ford and Nixon Domestic Councils, and the frustrations and pressures of working in the White House.

Jones, Jerry. An interview with the Deputy Assistant to the President concerning his evaluation of the impact of President Ford's personality on the management, operations and structure of the White House staff, comparisons with the Nixon White House, and the pressures, satisfactions and frustrations of working in the White House. (AV90-19-11)

Kendall, William. The first part of an interview on September 30, 1975 with the Deputy Assistant for Legislative Affairs (Senate) concerning the role of congressional liaison in the development of President Ford's legislative policy, and the organization and practices of the Office of Congressional Relations. (AV90-19-12)

Kendall, William. The second part of an interview on September 30, 1975 concerning the role of the Congressional Relations Office in legislative policy development, the effectiveness of congressional liaison in influencing votes, and access to President Ford. (AV90-19-13)

Lissy, David. An interview with the Special Assistant for Domestic Affairs concerning his activities with the Jewish community, prior role and activities as Domestic Council associate director for education, labor and veterans, comparisons of Ford and Nixon Domestic Councils, staff interactions, media leaks, and the pressures, frustrations and perks of working in the White House. (AV90-19-14)

Loen, Vernon. An interview with the Deputy Assistant for Legislative Affairs (House) regarding his liaison and lobbying activities in Ford and Nixon administrations, President Ford's participation, and the effectiveness and pressures of working in the Congressional Relations Office.

Moore, W. Allen. The first part of an interview on November 30, 1976 concerning clearance of an agency proposal on aviation noise, the circulation of OMB enrolled bill memoranda, White House paper flow, and planning and writing the State of the Union message. (AV90-19-24)

Moore, W. Allen. The second part of an interview on November 30, 1976 with the Domestic Council Associate Director for Operations concerning his prior activities as associate director for policy and planning, his handling of an enrolled bill on social security, a power struggle between domestic policy-makers in the Executive Branch, White House staff tensions and isolation, and the mystique and pressures of working in the White House. (AV90-19-16)

Moore, W. Allen. An interview on December 7, 1976 with the Domestic Council Associate Director for Operations concerning White House processing of OMB enrolled bill memoranda, and the collection and delivery of senior staff recommendations on controversial bills. (AV90-19-17)

Myer, Paul. An interview with the Domestic Council Associate Director for Congressional Affairs concerning his role as lobbyist for President Ford's general revenue sharing program, the diminished policy role of Ford's Domestic Council, staff and media interactions, and the perks and pressures of working in the White House. (AV90-19-18)

Ogilvie, Donald. An interview with the Associate Director of the Office of Management and Budget concerning his role in the management of President Ford's legislative program and accountability systems (management by objectives and the presidential tracking system), presidential decision-making, the budget process, and the politicization of OMB. (AV90-19-19)

Parsons, Richard. An interview with the Domestic Council Counsel and Associate Director for Justice, Civil Rights, Drugs and Consumer Affairs concerning his role in congressional liaison, processing the State of the Union message and enrolled bills, legislative clearance, OMB, agency and Domestic Council interactions, and the structure and leadership of the Domestic Council.

Porter, Roger. An interview with the Executive Secretary of the Economic Policy Board. The interview is closed pending Mr. Porter's permission to open.

Quern, Arthur. An interview on April 30, 1976 with the Domestic Council Deputy Director for Policy and Planning concerning his role in long-range planning, the State of the Union message, presidential campaign positions, urban indicator research, social security and national health insurance systems, and the Ford Domestic Council.

Quern, Arthur. An interview on December 7, 1976 with the Deputy Assistant to the President for Domestic Affairs concerning Domestic Council fire-fighting and policy recommendations, decision memoranda on enrolled bills, the Hatch Act, and White House staff tensions, pressures, frustrations, and satisfactions.

Raoul-Duval, Michael. A post-election (11/2/76) interview with the Special Counsel to the President concerning his policy-making role in areas of energy, intelligence community reform and campaign strategy, the comparative management styles, White House staffs and accomplishments of Presidents Ford and Nixon, decision-making and policy development in the Ford White House, Domestic Council staff interactions, media leaks, and the mystique and pressures of working in the White House. (AV90-19-4)

Raoul-Duval, Michael. The first part of an interview on February 9, 1977 with the Special Counsel to the President concerning management and decision-making styles of Presidents Ford and Nixon, the development of a back channel of policy advisors in the Ford White House, White House staff structure and tensions, and the foreign and domestic goals of the Ford presidency. (AV90-19-5)

Raoul-Duval, Michael. The second part of an interview on February 9, 1977, concerning the psychological aspects of working in the White House, its mystique, rewards, pressures, frustrations, and the potential for isolation from reality. (AV90-19-6)

Schleede, Glenn. An interview with the Domestic Council Associate Director for Energy and Science concerning policy initiatives in energy, Domestic Council, Economic Policy Board, OMB and vice presidential policy roles and staff interactions, circulation of controversial legislation, recommending on the merits vs. the politics, and the preparation of the State of the Union address. (AV90-19-25, AV90-19-26)

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